Discussion
Halb said:
That will be due to magic mushrooms or something. A mate of mine once drove home after tinkering with magic mushrooms with a kangaroo looking sideways at him from the passenger seat.
RegMolehusband said:
That will be due to magic mushrooms or something. A mate of mine once drove home after tinkering with magic mushrooms with a kangaroo looking sideways at him from the passenger seat.
I'd wager as many people claim to see fairies as they do aliens. What's your basis for rejecting the notion of fairies yet accepting the idea we're being visited by aliens?hornet said:
RegMolehusband said:
That will be due to magic mushrooms or something. A mate of mine once drove home after tinkering with magic mushrooms with a kangaroo looking sideways at him from the passenger seat.
I'd wager as many people claim to see fairies as they do aliens. What's your basis for rejecting the notion of fairies yet accepting the idea we're being visited by aliens?hornet said:
I'd wager as many people claim to see fairies as they do aliens. What's your basis for rejecting the notion of fairies yet accepting the idea we're being visited by aliens?
If you Google "fairy sightings" you get 27,200 results. If you Google "UFO sightings" you get 4,070,000 results. How much were you wagering?RegMolehusband said:
hornet said:
I'd wager as many people claim to see fairies as they do aliens. What's your basis for rejecting the notion of fairies yet accepting the idea we're being visited by aliens?
If you Google "fairy sightings" you get 27,200 results. If you Google "UFO sightings" you get 4,070,000 results. How much were you wagering?Westy Pre-Lit said:
There is loads about them on the internet if your interested. The evidence is plenty of video proof, radar proof, visual proof. I'd say that that was proof that something is happening.
So apart turning up and looking at them for yourself or having one of these things in a box you can poke with stick, what other proof do you require that these things exists ?
I'm not doubting they exist in the sense something is going on. What I'm saying is that footage of an unidentified something is only "proof" of an unidentified something. No other conclusions can be drawn without further data, so yes, ultimately it does mean getting out there and kicking the tyres. If these things are seen on a regular basis, it suggests some sort of natural phenomena, so let's throw the scientific kitchen sink at it with every sort of measurement and recording device we can muster. As I said previously, if you don't have enough data to draw an earthbound conclusion, you certainly can't draw an alien one, as that's even more unlikely and would therefore require cosiderably MORE data. That's my gripe with this sort of thing. Speculation has replaced investigation. People race to rule things in without first ruling things out. It's bad research.So apart turning up and looking at them for yourself or having one of these things in a box you can poke with stick, what other proof do you require that these things exists ?
Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Wednesday 4th July 23:05
RegMolehusband said:
If you Google "fairy sightings" you get 27,200 results. If you Google "UFO sightings" you get 4,070,000 results. How much were you wagering?
Because fairy folklore has obviously only existed in the era of the internet, there's zero texts on the subject pre-dating 1995 and no cultures have any sort of "otherkin" mythology whatsoever...ETA - If you Google "2012 end of the world", you get 24,200,000 results, so that's evidently six times more valid under your method, yes? You get 14,600 results for "reptilian elite" for crying out loud.
Edited by hornet on Tuesday 10th July 18:28
Sorry but I'm not getting into a debate about fairies, unicorns, hobgoblins, ghosts and other such paranormal red-herring crap.
UFOs or UAPs are a very real phenomenon.
Have a glance at this Telegraph story and then show me a similar article about big names commenting upon fairies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/5201410/Are-...
UFOs or UAPs are a very real phenomenon.
Have a glance at this Telegraph story and then show me a similar article about big names commenting upon fairies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/5201410/Are-...
Here's some more quotes. Sorry again, but it's going to be long...
"I've been convinced for a long time that the flying saucers are real and interplanetary. In other words we are being watched by beings from outer space."--Albert M. Chop, Deputy Public Relations Director, National Aeronautics and Space Administration,(NASA) and former United States Air Force spokesman for Project Blue Book.
2."We had a job to do, whether right or wrong, to keep the public from getting excited"--Dr. J Allen Hynek, Director US Air Force´s project Blue Book as a scientific consultant, astronomer, investigator and analysis.
3."Of course it is possible that UFO's really do contain aliens as many people believe, and the Government is hushing it up."--Professor Stephen Hawking.
4."Given the millions of billions of Earth-like planets, life elsewhere in the Universe without a doubt, does exist. In the vastness of the Universe we are not alone."--The Bible According to Albert Einstein.
5."I am completely convinced that UFOs have an out-of-world basis." --Dr. Walther Riedel (Once chief designer and research director at the German Rocket Centre in Peenemunde).
6."The possibility of reduced-time interstellar travel either by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations at present or ourselves in the future, is not fundamentally constrained by physical principles."-- Dr. Harold Puthoff (Director, Institute for advanced studies at Austin, Author of fundamentals of Quantum Electronics).
7."The least improbable explanation is that these things are artificial and controlled ... My opinion for some time has been that they have an extraterrestrial origin." --Dr. Maurice Biot (leading aerodynamicists and mathematical physicist).
8."The evidence is overwhelming that Planet Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. In other words, SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. Most are not. It's clear from the Opinion Polls and my own experience, that indeed most people accept the notion that SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. The greater the education, the MORE likely to accept this proposition"-- Stanton Friedman Defense Contractor Nuclear Physicist.
9."Extraterrestrial contact is a real phenomenon. The Vatican is receiving much information about extraterrestrials and their contacts with humans from its Nuncios (embassies) in various countries, such as Mexico, Chile and Venezuela." -- Monsignor Corrado Balducci As stated 5 different times on Italian TV** (Vatican theologian insider close to the Pope, Monsignor Balducci said that he is on a Vatican commission looking into extraterrestrial encounters, and how to cope with the emerging general realization of extraterrestrial contact.)
10."We must insist upon full access to disks recovered. For instance, in the La case the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination." --J Edgar Hoover.
11."I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not manufactured by any nations on earth" --Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding (Commander-in-chief, Royal Air Force Fighter Command) An outpouring of UFO reports which forces response in high places, particularly when unknowns virtually blitzed the U.S. capitol in Washington, D.C. An Air Force intelligence analysis also concluded that UFOs were interplanetary spaceships. (1952).
12."The UFO phenomenon being reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious" --General Nathan Twining Chairman, Joint chiefs of staff, 1955-1958.
13."Unknown objects are operating under intelligent control... It is imperative that we learn where UFOs come from and what their purpose is. I can tell you, behind the scenes, high ranking military officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs" --Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter (Former director of the Central Intelligence Agency).
14."The possibility of reduced-time interstellar travel either by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations at present or ourselves in the future, is not fundamentally constrained by physical principles." -- Dr. Harold Puthoff (Director, Institute for advanced studies at Austin, Author of fundamentals of Quantum Electronics).
15. Truman climbs on board: "I can assure you that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth" --President Harry S. Truman.
16."The US Airforce assures me that UFO's pose no threat to National Security.." --President John F Kennedy.
17."I feel that the Air Force has not been giving out all the available information on the Unidentified Flying Objects. You cannot disregard so many unimpeachable sources." -- John W. McCormack, Speaker of the House of Representatives of the United States. January (1965).
18. On the campaign trail, soon-to-be President Jimmy Carter promises that upon election, he would make public all the government's information on UFO sightings. "I don't laugh at people any more when they say they've seen UFOs. I've seen one myself!"--President Jimmy Carter (1976).
19."I looked out the window and saw this white light. It was zigzagging around. I went up to the pilot and said, Have you ever seen anything like that? He was shocked and he said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let's follow it!" We followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light. We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter amazement it went straight up into the heavens. When I got off the plane I told Nancy all about it."--President Ronald Reagan (Describing his 1974 UFO encounter to veteran newsman Norman C. Miller, then Washington bureau chief for the Wall Street Journal.)
20."I think about how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And I ask you, does not this threat already exist?"--President Ronald Reagan UN address.
21."The phenomenon of UFOs does exist, and it must be treated seriously."--Mikhail Gorbachev.
22."I'm not at liberty to discuss the governments knowledge of extraterrestrial UFO's at this time. I am still personally being briefed on the subject!"--President Richard M. Nixon.
I quite like no. 21 myself.
"I've been convinced for a long time that the flying saucers are real and interplanetary. In other words we are being watched by beings from outer space."--Albert M. Chop, Deputy Public Relations Director, National Aeronautics and Space Administration,(NASA) and former United States Air Force spokesman for Project Blue Book.
2."We had a job to do, whether right or wrong, to keep the public from getting excited"--Dr. J Allen Hynek, Director US Air Force´s project Blue Book as a scientific consultant, astronomer, investigator and analysis.
3."Of course it is possible that UFO's really do contain aliens as many people believe, and the Government is hushing it up."--Professor Stephen Hawking.
4."Given the millions of billions of Earth-like planets, life elsewhere in the Universe without a doubt, does exist. In the vastness of the Universe we are not alone."--The Bible According to Albert Einstein.
5."I am completely convinced that UFOs have an out-of-world basis." --Dr. Walther Riedel (Once chief designer and research director at the German Rocket Centre in Peenemunde).
6."The possibility of reduced-time interstellar travel either by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations at present or ourselves in the future, is not fundamentally constrained by physical principles."-- Dr. Harold Puthoff (Director, Institute for advanced studies at Austin, Author of fundamentals of Quantum Electronics).
7."The least improbable explanation is that these things are artificial and controlled ... My opinion for some time has been that they have an extraterrestrial origin." --Dr. Maurice Biot (leading aerodynamicists and mathematical physicist).
8."The evidence is overwhelming that Planet Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. In other words, SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. Most are not. It's clear from the Opinion Polls and my own experience, that indeed most people accept the notion that SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. The greater the education, the MORE likely to accept this proposition"-- Stanton Friedman Defense Contractor Nuclear Physicist.
9."Extraterrestrial contact is a real phenomenon. The Vatican is receiving much information about extraterrestrials and their contacts with humans from its Nuncios (embassies) in various countries, such as Mexico, Chile and Venezuela." -- Monsignor Corrado Balducci As stated 5 different times on Italian TV** (Vatican theologian insider close to the Pope, Monsignor Balducci said that he is on a Vatican commission looking into extraterrestrial encounters, and how to cope with the emerging general realization of extraterrestrial contact.)
10."We must insist upon full access to disks recovered. For instance, in the La case the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination." --J Edgar Hoover.
11."I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not manufactured by any nations on earth" --Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding (Commander-in-chief, Royal Air Force Fighter Command) An outpouring of UFO reports which forces response in high places, particularly when unknowns virtually blitzed the U.S. capitol in Washington, D.C. An Air Force intelligence analysis also concluded that UFOs were interplanetary spaceships. (1952).
12."The UFO phenomenon being reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious" --General Nathan Twining Chairman, Joint chiefs of staff, 1955-1958.
13."Unknown objects are operating under intelligent control... It is imperative that we learn where UFOs come from and what their purpose is. I can tell you, behind the scenes, high ranking military officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs" --Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter (Former director of the Central Intelligence Agency).
14."The possibility of reduced-time interstellar travel either by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations at present or ourselves in the future, is not fundamentally constrained by physical principles." -- Dr. Harold Puthoff (Director, Institute for advanced studies at Austin, Author of fundamentals of Quantum Electronics).
15. Truman climbs on board: "I can assure you that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth" --President Harry S. Truman.
16."The US Airforce assures me that UFO's pose no threat to National Security.." --President John F Kennedy.
17."I feel that the Air Force has not been giving out all the available information on the Unidentified Flying Objects. You cannot disregard so many unimpeachable sources." -- John W. McCormack, Speaker of the House of Representatives of the United States. January (1965).
18. On the campaign trail, soon-to-be President Jimmy Carter promises that upon election, he would make public all the government's information on UFO sightings. "I don't laugh at people any more when they say they've seen UFOs. I've seen one myself!"--President Jimmy Carter (1976).
19."I looked out the window and saw this white light. It was zigzagging around. I went up to the pilot and said, Have you ever seen anything like that? He was shocked and he said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let's follow it!" We followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light. We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter amazement it went straight up into the heavens. When I got off the plane I told Nancy all about it."--President Ronald Reagan (Describing his 1974 UFO encounter to veteran newsman Norman C. Miller, then Washington bureau chief for the Wall Street Journal.)
20."I think about how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And I ask you, does not this threat already exist?"--President Ronald Reagan UN address.
21."The phenomenon of UFOs does exist, and it must be treated seriously."--Mikhail Gorbachev.
22."I'm not at liberty to discuss the governments knowledge of extraterrestrial UFO's at this time. I am still personally being briefed on the subject!"--President Richard M. Nixon.
I quite like no. 21 myself.
RegMolehusband said:
Sorry but I'm not getting into a debate about fairies, unicorns, hobgoblins, ghosts and other such paranormal red-herring crap.
UFOs or UAPs are a very real phenomenon.
Not saying they're not, but there's a difference between UFO/UAP and alien spacecraft, which I think is the point many people are trying to put to you. UFO footage can only be taken as proof you have yet to identify the thing in the footage. That's all it ever can be by definition. You do not have enough data to support any further claim, be it fairies or hobgoblins. You may want it to be aliens, but you have no logical basis to support that assumption. Think about it. If you start from having footage of something you can't identify, the gap between that position and the "it's an alien spacecraft" position contains EVERY known object it could possibly be. You therefore can't make the alien jump until you've gone through and eliminated every other known object, and even then you still don't have definitive proof for the alien hypothesis. Knowing what is isn't is not the same thing as proof of what it is. It's still unidentified. The alien claim needs an extraordinary level of evidence as it's an extraordinary claim.UFOs or UAPs are a very real phenomenon.
RegMolehusband said:
I know Mr. Morgan won't bother to listen but here's an interview with Leslie Kean 
http://ttbook.org/wprplayer/popup
I have seen at least two parts of her evidence ripped apart (probably more but I am not buying her door stop). The latest I have witnessed was the insect she claimed was a UFO then watched as she back tracked and let it fall off the radar whilst tried to reconcile proofs with it. I need to see some substantial proof off her. No media unless it is substantial evidence.http://ttbook.org/wprplayer/popup
The link, does not work in me mac.
I think she is a jumping on the bandwagon and milking it. People are buying her books and from what I can see she is regurgitating old stuff and not even doing any proper research on that let alone the new. The only other explanation is she believes it hook line and sinker.
hornet said:
Not saying they're not, but there's a difference between UFO/UAP and alien spacecraft, which I think is the point many people are trying to put to you. UFO footage can only be taken as proof you have yet to identify the thing in the footage. That's all it ever can be by definition. You do not have enough data to support any further claim, be it fairies or hobgoblins. You may want it to be aliens, but you have no logical basis to support that assumption. Think about it. If you start from having footage of something you can't identify, the gap between that position and the "it's an alien spacecraft" position contains EVERY known object it could possibly be. You therefore can't make the alien jump until you've gone through and eliminated every other known object, and even then you still don't have definitive proof for the alien hypothesis. Knowing what is isn't is not the same thing as proof of what it is. It's still unidentified. The alien claim needs an extraordinary level of evidence as it's an extraordinary claim.
So are you saying it's fairies driving these things? Only kidding. I spend most of my time on here trying to convince people that UFOs are a very real unnatural phenomena and I don't push the ET hypothesis. There are far more intelligent people than I who do that more eloquently than I ever could.At least you appear to accept, as far as I can see, that there are real objects being witnessed up there.
I can understand why millions of people lean towards the ET hypothesis given the weird and unearthly performance and appearance of these things combined with the unknown vastness of the universe and our miniscule knowledge of its nature.
jmorgan said:
I have seen at least two parts of her evidence ripped apart (probably more but I am not buying her door stop). The latest I have witnessed was the insect she claimed was a UFO then watched as she back tracked and let it fall off the radar whilst tried to reconcile proofs with it. I need to see some substantial proof off her. No media unless it is substantial evidence.
The link, does not work in me mac.
I think she is a jumping on the bandwagon and milking it. People are buying her books and from what I can see she is regurgitating old stuff and not even doing any proper research on that let alone the new. The only other explanation is she believes it hook line and sinker.
I think that illustrates the weakness of your arguments by your having to fall back on the "at least" and "probably more" crutches. Which two or more accounts in her book have been ripped apart?The link, does not work in me mac.
I think she is a jumping on the bandwagon and milking it. People are buying her books and from what I can see she is regurgitating old stuff and not even doing any proper research on that let alone the new. The only other explanation is she believes it hook line and sinker.
RegMolehusband said:
jmorgan said:
I have seen at least two parts of her evidence ripped apart (probably more but I am not buying her door stop). The latest I have witnessed was the insect she claimed was a UFO then watched as she back tracked and let it fall off the radar whilst tried to reconcile proofs with it. I need to see some substantial proof off her. No media unless it is substantial evidence.
The link, does not work in me mac.
I think she is a jumping on the bandwagon and milking it. People are buying her books and from what I can see she is regurgitating old stuff and not even doing any proper research on that let alone the new. The only other explanation is she believes it hook line and sinker.
I think that illustrates the weakness of your arguments by your having to fall back on the "at least" and "probably more" crutches. Which two or more accounts in her book have been ripped apart?The link, does not work in me mac.
I think she is a jumping on the bandwagon and milking it. People are buying her books and from what I can see she is regurgitating old stuff and not even doing any proper research on that let alone the new. The only other explanation is she believes it hook line and sinker.
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